I am traveling and found the following message from the University of Alabama (hosts the LNT-L email list) when I got a chance to download my email:
"Due to changes in the IT administration at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, this mailing list must be shut down as of the end of next week. Please make other arrangements by then. Sorry for any inconvenience."I have been wondering what to do about LNT-L for some time. The effort required on my part to eliminate spam and to clean up bouncing email addresses has been a growing pain and I have been interested in finding a host using more modern email software to help with this.
I have also noticed that someone has to keep "seeding" the discussions on a low-traffic list like this to have any discussion going on at all. I have genuinely enjoyed the many and varied LNT-related discussions (the hotter the better
I have a complete list of the hundreds of subscribers to LNT-L and will be most happy to port all of us over to a Yahoo Group or some such (MUCH more modern spam protection, etc.!) which also could offer us various web-based services (store files, photos, message archive, etc.) to go along with the email distribution list.
I will need some help to keep the new list/Group more active if we do decide to keep it going. Let me know if you think that it is worth it...AND how much you are willing to help out
I am heading out the door to hike a stretch of the CDT in southern NM early tomorrow morning and will be on the trail until after the plug is pulled on our LNT-L server. Post your messages to LNT-L in the usual way and I will read them at the first opportunity weekend after next.
I still think that a public LNT-interest forum can be a neat resource for all of us involved at any level in LNT. I like the idea of having a national forum which can be joined by anyone interested in LNT (and having good moderators to screen out the fruit loops
Want to try it out?
Trace No Leaves,
- Charlie
Hello All -
ReplyDeleteI just realized that I won't be around to offer a public "Thank You!" to our UAH hosts for allowing us to use their computer resources all these years. Jim McCullars has provided the technical expertise and energy to answer our many questions as we stumbled along with LNT-L.
I enjoyed doing Scouting with Jim more than a few years ago and working with him on LNT-L was a great way to keep in touch. Looks like it is time to find another excuse...it won't be hard!
Thanks for all the help over the years, Jim!
Trace No Leaves,
- Charlie
I too believe a public forum like this is important. Please find an
ReplyDeleteappropriate solution and port the list over.
Although my time is VERY limited, let me know how I can help and I'll do my
best.
-dll
i do not have a whole lot of extra time but i can offer some web space
ReplyDeletefor files and my limited programming ability (mainly css and html)
thanks, brian h
i would probably be able to have a mailing list set up within a couple
ReplyDeletedays. i just need to check my webhosting limits first
I would also like to offer to lend a hand. I am a hosting provider, and own a small server farm. I can provide server space and set up a forum-based list. As an LNT Trainer myself, I would provide these resources at no cost to anyone as a contribution to the cause.
ReplyDeleteandrew,
ReplyDeletesince you are more suited for the job, go ahead lol, i will help around
if needed.
It is great to see the responses of those willing to take over as host. However, as Charlie said, I think a yahoo group might be the way to go. Primarily because of the capabilities now available with yahoo groups (files, pics, etc.), but also because the likelihood of a future shutdown in my opinion is much less. We have a small yahoo group for LNT Trainer's in Circle 10, and it works well, other than the fact that, just like LNT-L, the group is often very silent (but there aren't that many on the group). You do NOT have to have a yahoo account to join a yahoo group, so that isn't a problem. I would be willing to help as much as possible with a yahoo group.
ReplyDeleteAndre H
i think it is worth,
ReplyDeletei do not know or have from here, any immediate way of helping, but if i can help, i am here
claudio
Why not
ReplyDeleteHello Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI have a Google group already set up that has been mirroring this mailing list. All of the messages since July '08 are already on there.
You can take a look at it at http://groups.google.com/group/lnt-l.
I set it up and set Charlie up as a manager too and we talked a bit about importing old message archives. There turned out not to be an easy way to import them as messages but we could certainly put the archives up in files of some format.
It can easily be modified to be a normal Google group after the mailing list goes away. We would also have a place to store some files and information.
It's currently set up so anyone can view the group and request to join.
I'm glad to help jump start conversations from time to time.
Please visit the group and see if you think this would be a good next incarnation of the mailing list.....
--Dan T
Enjoy the CDT! We use the Yahoo type groups with success and that seems like the best way to transition.
ReplyDeleteGriff
The ROAR site is already set up to host information - not emails. We would
ReplyDeletebe happy to add to the following areas:
Free Resources - Prepared by Others: For training and educational
information, handouts, ideas, etc. (Everything in the Prepared by Others
section is from Scouters.
Activity Photos: For photos related to any type of conservation, nature
awareness, LNT, Tread Lightly!, etc. activities and training sessions. (All
photos but one activity are from Scouting activities)
Memorabilia: To display (not sell) any items directly related to the type
of activites listed above. (To date only LNT, Tread Lightly!, state and
federal AND BSA memorabilia is shown)
Boy Scout: Provides the most complete listing BSA related information
available on the web -- including Master Educator courses and Trainer
courses related to Scouting.
Including information on the ROAR site has the added benefit of providing
the most complete listing of resources related to LNT, Tread Lightly!,
conservation, outdoor education and recreation on the internet. All in one
place.
We will post anything requested (well, almost - you know what I mean) that
relates to the purpose of ROAR -- which was set up to provide a more
complete resource for busy leaders who work with young people. We can tweak
where necessary, add other sections, whatever. We can make the ROAR site
work for your purposes. Hosting the info on the ROAR site also provides an
excellent window for showing the world the good work of the BSA related to
these important topics.
Info like this hosted on a site normally only used by members of the BSA
would miss that important benefit as most people would not go looking for it
just to see what the BSA is doing. This way it is in the open and would
garner a lot of interest outside of BSA.
Don
Why not just use an existing source? Something like facebook? It's super easy to create groups, in fact many LNT groups are already formed. There is a forum place, you can search members, post announcements and even create events and invite all or select members to. This might be the easiest and fastest solution.
ReplyDeleteFacebook certainly gives us plenty of options. There is a 'Leave No Trace Trainers' and 'Leave No Trace Master Educators' groups as well as the 'Leave No Trace' group.
ReplyDeleteFacebook, MySpace, and the other social networking sites are great ideas, but one of the biggest obstacles of using those venues as a replacement for LNT-L is the fact that users must register with a public profile rather than simply provide a username/email combination. From personal experience working with other groups, many people are not "into" the social networking and would rather not create a public profile. LNT-L was great in that it was a simple email list that didn't require a profile, just a simple registration. As already noted, the social networking sites already have LNT groups there. In fact, I would hazard a guess that many members of the LNT-L are already members of one or more of those various groups. I don't think the purpose that Charlie put forth was to re-invent any of those, but simply to replace what is being lost here from UAH. Anyway, I have resources to contribute, and volunteer my time and service of webmaster, should this group wish to use them. If not, then that is ok too.
ReplyDeleteAndrew P
Dan,
ReplyDeleteI copied and pasted the site you sent to a search window and got a message that it could not find LNT-L!!!
Jay...
Jay,
ReplyDeleteI just made the group public yesterday after the note from Charlie. Google groups can be made private so they don't show up in the directory or searches.
I'll check it out this morning.
It should be pretty edasy to get it in some search engines if we decide this is what we want to use to replace the majordomo list from Univ. Of Alabama.
Did you try out te group to see what you thought?
--Dan
The shortcut worked fine for me- but I was already signed in to yahoo groups with my yahoo ID/pwd, could that be the problem?
ReplyDeleteDavid
While I do facebook, I know it is a venue that can be hazardous when it comes to personal information. You have to really pay attention to what you are allowing when you set up your account and give out only minimal personal information. I realize that many folks may not want to take that risk, or be comfortable with the venue.
ReplyDeleteOn the plus side, it is easy enough to use to share information.
I like a yahoogroup idea because the yahoogroups allow you to store resource files as well as photographs that can be used by other LNT-ers. The email sharing is much like what we've been doing with LNT-L, and very seldom do spammers get through if the owner(s) and moderator(s) are diligent. Past emails are stored for future reference, one can set one's personal settings to receive a daily digest of all the emails, to receive each email individually, or to not receive any emails if one wishes to take a break or just check messages on-line. It's pretty flexible.
I'll go either way, but for me the biggest attraction is the file and photograph sharing capabilities of the yahoogroup.
Just my $0.02
John U
I gave really enjoyed receiving all the emails from this group and I really find it useful. Altough I have never posted before and I'm not really sure if this reply will be posted I must agree with the suggestion of the yahoo groups.
ReplyDeleteJust my vote.
Looks like my mailer put some extra HTML in the link I sent out so
ReplyDeletesome people were not able to access it.
Here is the link in plain text for those not able to follow the
previous link...
http://groups.google.com/group/lnt-l.
I created this group to archive the messages from the majordomo list
at UAH as a way to give people the ability to go back and read
previous message threads. I wanted to be able to give the link to
people who took my Trainer courses.
I think it is very beneficial to have a place for people interested in
LNT to have a place to exchange ideas and ask questions. I too,
would like to see a bit more activity without someone having to jump
start the conversations.
Using a group like this gives you some advantages over other
solutions, for example:
* Messages can be kept on the group and can be accessed at a later date.
* Email delivery can be set to your preference, each email, daily
digest, no email (read online).
* The Group can be made public so anyone can subscribe, and it is
quite easy to do. It's a little more user-friendly than the majordomo
mailing list.
* It can be set up so that anyone can view the content, but only
members can post messages.
* There can be multiple moderators to help quell any spam or
unwanted traffic in the group, or even to moderate or ban messages
from any particular offender.
* It can be set up so email addresses are not exposed to other
members of the list, but you can get on the group and send messages to
any member.
* Other content ( files, photos, web links, content pages....) can
be easily shared.
* RSS feeds! (on Google Groups anyway, not available on yahoo groups yet).
* Did i mention RSS feeds????
I would like to see this list survive in some format. I think a group
would work well. I also have some yahoo groups that I use as well but
Google Groups have some advantages and are definitely easier for
people who are not part of the group to view, and we want as many
people reading LNT information as possible, right?
I don't think any of the social networking sites would work well for a
large group.
I think Don's offer to host content on the ROAR site is noble, and
there may be some content that it would work very well for, but the
discussion and sharing aspect of a list would be difficult for him to
duplicate on his site, and would be a lot of work for him to maintain.
This is starting to look like one of Charlie's emails, so I'll end
here. I 'm sure he will weigh in when he gets back from NM.....
--Dan
Andrew said: "Facebook, MySpace, and the other social networking sites are great ideas, but one of the biggest obstacles of using those venues as a replacement for LNT-L is the fact that users must register with a public profile rather than simply provide a username/email combination. From personal experience working with other groups, many people are not "into" the social networking and would rather not create a public profile. "
ReplyDeleteHear! Hear! Recently, I got my computer back from the shop. I was told it had eleven different viruses in it (even with AVG Anti-virus running). The guy at the shop gave me a list of places that normally distribute viruses and My Space and Facebook were on the list. If this group moves to either of those sites, you can do it without me, as I will quit. Those sites are for lonely teenagers.
Rik B
Hi folks,
ReplyDeleteI concur w/all that John Unger notes below. I like its flexibility (receiving all messages or periodic summaries) and I particularly like that we can store files and photos for sharing w/others – a huge plus.
Jeff
Rik,
ReplyDeleteI respect your feelings, and agree that viruses can be caught on Facebook (but also many other webpages) I dispute your assessment above.
To avoid the viruses et al, one simply needs to avoid allowing access to the different games and "applications" that are optional with facebook. While that is not 100% protection against viruses, it helps. The only way to have 100% protection against viruses on a computer is to never load any software nor ever access the internet.
But what I have found valuable with social networks as facebook or myspace (which I don't use) is the ability to connect with family, friends and former Scouts and Venturers who no longer live in the area. I can actually keep up with my multitudinous neices and nephews (and their parents), know how our former Venturer's lives are going and offer support and encouragement, and establish common interest groups for our Crew or family to share things together.
I still prefer a yahoogroup for the LNT-L purposes, however one ought not undervalue other tools either.
-John U
I do not have to worry about viruses, for I use linux. (Sorry, just had
ReplyDeleteto throw it out there. Ubuntu Linux is definitely worth looking into)
Thanks,
Brian
Just as a side note, I sometimes wonder how much longer Yahoo and Google will be keeping their Groups services alive due to the rising popularity of Facebook and MySpace. MSN has already decided to shutter their Groups service this month, and Yahoo shuttered their Clubs service several years ago, and recently their Mash (social networking) service. Google's Orkut (social networking) is already on consideration for shuttering due to dwindling interest in favor of Facebook. These companies, especially the financially struggling Yahoo, are in the business to make money with these kinds of Internet services, and when these services no longer generate sufficient revenue, they will shutter them without any regard to their users.
ReplyDeleteWell put, John. My initial response was much less eloquent and civil, though quite pithy.
ReplyDeleteJohn F
Charlie,
ReplyDeleteWill you be able to save all the files?
Dan,
ReplyDeleteThanks,
I'll try it out again later today. Right now I'm running and gunning doing catch-up before I run out the door.
Later,
Jay...
Dan,
ReplyDeleteThanks---now it works and you answered the question I sent to Charlie about saving the files.
It's nice to know there are people several steps ahead of me!!!!! WOW! I've got people!
jay...